And possessing Deborah, Noodles life-long romantic ideal, would be Maxs crowning achievement. When he gets out of prison Max shows up with a prostitute in the back of his hearse. In Once Upon a Time in America, the gangsterism and violence are merely the background or the world these characters find themselves in. For her part, Deborah moves on with her life, but there is a part of her that will never stop loving him because she also realises, deep down, that Noodles has suffered more from the act of raping her than she herself has. He put his gun away and eked out a quiet life. Unfortunately, the reasons are never really explained. I took everything. I don't want to mentally live in some Italian hypermasculine world where women are helpless and only accept the abuse men give them. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The Hoods got him and killed him. Can the Spiritual Weapon spell be used as cover? Its hard when you are young to visualize someone you are crazy about getting old so Noodles couldnt visualize it like he did for everyone else. A direct line can be drawn from the machine gun death which ends Bonnie and Clyde (1967) to the toll-booth execution of Sonny Corleone (James Caan) in The Godfather. Date: 05/20/2003, 05/22/2003 . But the one we always discuss after seeing the film for the first time is the story behind the ending scene. In the scene that shortly precedes the one you're referring to, Deborah and Noodles are alone in Deborah's father restaurant. However, I also don't like the idea of her being simply attracted to money, as I hoped for better from her character. Cos its not okay with me, Noodles tells Max after the gang delivers on a particularly costly contract, double-crossing their partners in a major diamond heist. She exists.\" And that would get me through it all. He soon joins the gang, and they progress to bigger crimes. There is a visible victim, and Noodles wealth and pretensions of honor are worthless. This website works best with modern browsers such as the latest versions of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Edge. 6.Why does he rape Deborah? The Godfather has some brutal scenes. The core of the story here is about relationships over time, not about the violence. Max takes as his mistress Noodles' first 'rape' victim, Carol. His name is David. The Masque of the Red Death (1964) - Director: Roger Corman. Of course did Noodles open the door and see the young man looking exactly like Max when he was a kid. Future mob entertainment mainstays are all over Once Upon a Time in America too, and they are in distinguished company. Noodles is genuinely puzzled by Debbie's 'strange' reaction, and this is why he carries on with the ghastly rape, he figures that if he 'keeps going' and 'gives her a bit more' she will start to enjoy it like Carol did, poor, ignorant, foolish Noodles. Tomorrow they ask me to get rid of you. Once Upon a Time in America ripped the genres insides out and displayed them with unflinching veracity and theatrical beauty. The Godfather, which glorifies crime as corporate misadventure, is a serious movie with no time for funny business. There are many layers to this movie once you view it as Sergio Leone's idea of how these people at this time in America would behave in the circumstances he created. The prostitute from that scene ends up rejecting Noodles, too, and contributes to the downfall of the gang. The gangs shared secret bankroll was empty when he tried to retrieve it as the last surviving member. The two of them started in the same place, but they are now on two vastly different courses, and it's clearly meant to be seen as a desperate act of violence on Noodles's part. Also the car rape scene is probably the most uncomfortable scene I've sat through in a movie. implies that Deborah, who has been built up as the "nice girl" in this But more importantly, Max, unlike Noodles, is the kind of man Deborah would respect. This entire post is about me learning that rape can be valuable in an artful way, I just wanted to leave it open for a differing perspective. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Skipping between various episodes in the lives of (disconcertingly Sicilian) Jewish hoodlums from the 1920s to the 1960s, Once Upon a Time in America is more interested in the bravura image than in telling a lucid story. Deborah: Yeah and the thing is, I probably wouldn't even mind. The last time Noodles was with Deborah before, he was raping her. Making his integrity the prevailing SCORE of his destiny. You don't actually give a "blunt answer" at all here. Later, the woman he raped is seen in a brothel. Specifically, what you are seeing before your eyes doesn't make sense. Leone could get away with that in the wide-open spaces of the American west. The truck switch on the engine, and from the villa emerges a figure that seems (but we are not sure) Mr. Bailey. How did Max go from long-dead to a man with legitimate power? And it gives me a hard-on.". This past fall (spring in the Southern Hemisphere) Zo released her first . How can I change a sentence based upon input to a command? On one of its summits is a ruined castle keep, and the Renaissance church of Santa Mara del Sotorrano; on another stands the old Clock Tower (Torre del Reloj), opposite the ruin of a former palace. This is an ambitious story. Noodles sexually assaults two women over the course of the film. There is a very nonchalant attitude toward violence and other demeaning acts against women in Leones film, from the very opening scene where a thug fondles a womans breast with his gun in order to humiliate her civilian date. She is a poor kid who will need money and Max will be the money man. Coppola bent American filmmaking for The Godfather, but stayed within proscribed parameters. Still, I can't help but feel uncomfortable when it appears on screen. Forward Contracts I.A.7.2 Principles of Pricing and Valuation for Forward Contracts on Assets I.A.7.2.1 The Value at Time 0 of a Forward Contract I.A.7.2.2 The Value at Expiration of a Forward Contract on an Asset I.A.7.2.3 The Value Prior to Expiration of a Forward . It tells a full history, from childhood to old age, street. Did the Gang, including Fat Moe, know that Noodles raped Deborah? Why is it that torture (not Hostel torture, though) draws less of a response than rape? Get the best of Den of Geek delivered right to your inbox! Deborah is hurt that Noodles always chooses Max over her, and ultimately this is the REAL reason that she decides to follow her ambition and go to Chicago, she is angry and upset that SHE is not number one in Noodles loyalties and priorities, Max is and Deborah feels that she will always be competing with Max for the attention of Noodles. Deborah occasionally seems to reciprocate his feelings but usually rebuffs him. This act also What game is it Bond can't afford to play? Patsy puts away his P210 during the diamond heist. Both Max and Deborah, who is portrayed as narcissistic prima Donna, are willing to do whatever it takes to get to the top.. is a multi millionaire, with valuable assets, a grand mansion and a Once again we meet the great Gonzalo, this time through his famous elder brother Alfonso Fernndez de Crdoba , sixth Lord of Aguilar. Leone skillfully, yet playfully, captures the poverty of immigrant life in New York. Explanation of a drugged up Vincent Vega scene. I didn't think about it that way. Noodles himself points out the similarity of the pair when he complains to Deborah, Yous twos are just alike thats why you hate each other so much. Deborah and Max, for all their apparent antipathy, share the same values for wealth and fame in Deborahs words making it to the top. By contrast, Noodles is a self-described loser whose lack of ambition is held in contempt by both Deborah (youll always be a two-bit punk) and Max (Youll carry the stink of the streets for the rest of your life). Whereas The Godfather moved in a linear fashion, Once Upon a Time in America has time for flashbacks, and flashbacks within flashbacks, and detours that careen between the violent and the quiet. The one time the effects team balks at a payoff is when its not as gruesome as the setup. We know little of Michael Corleone (Al Pacino) or Sonny as youngsters, much less teenagers, and are robbed of their happier moments of bonding. He even admits the whole thing was a syndicate sting operation having his own body identified and living in Noodles' place Deborah probably had no involvement in this but Noodles' comparison of her to Max made an impression and that much more sweet and bitter betrayal for the both. This is the closest thing to physical intimacy with Noodles that Max will ever get. Of course, there is the famous "it was an opium dream" theory supported by the fact that the movie ends on Noodles in the opium den in the past. ;-) You provide some neat insights but I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to say with this answer. How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? His experiences with women have been limited to prostitutes or with women like Carol, the blonde cashier who encouraged him to rape her because she is a masochist who enjoys extremely rough sex; the scene in which Carol entices and provokes Noodles in to raping her ends with her having a screaming orgasm. Its sequel, The Godfather, Part II, often follows it in the pantheon of classic cinema, some critics even believe it is the better film. I took your money. She told him that because she knew exactly Noodles would recognize Senator Bailey's son, David (names after Noodles), as looking just the same as Max when they were kids. New on the block, Max (Rusty Jacobs) interrupts the gang as theyre about to roll a drunk, and Max makes off with the guys watch for himself. In 1968, the elderly David "Noodles" Aaronson (Robert De Niro) returns to New York, where he had a career in the criminal underground in the '20s and '30s. It looked like they literally used red paint. Once Upon a Time in America is a frontier film. This epic production about young Jewish gangsters in early 20th-century New York City pushes the boundaries of cinematic expression in several dimensions and remains as breathtaking today as when it was first released. David "Noodles" Aaronson struggles as a street kid in a neighborhood on Manhattan's Lower East Side in 1918. Firstly, it's possible that after Noodles rape of her, she simply lost respect for herself and her body and simply decided that material riches were all she needed. Does With(NoLock) help with query performance? Noodles loves both Deborah and Max, but he feels more of a sense of loyalty to Max and this is why he always chooses to stand by Max, even at the expense of Deborah. 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Even though Leone had an artful treatment of it, is it ever truly justified in a film? The scenes in the 60s are all Noodles on opium and how his mind tries to make sense of things. This is future Oscar winner Jennifer Connellys first movie. While I wouldn't go as far as to think the 60s part was only a dream (and am not implying that you do), I still like your general approach. It's what humanity does. The second article does mention the problem of some of the characters not recognising Max (although not explicitly stating Deborah) - but it does recognise this as one of the weakest parts of the film. Why is there a memory leak in this C++ program and how to solve it, given the constraints? You expect her to cringe, to have an emotional reaction to the man who violated her. Max would exchange the money for sex. In fact the attraction to money doesn't sound so unfitting as she always seemed a little bit snobby to me. Robert Evans, head of production at Paramount in the early 1970s, wanted The Godfather to be directed by an Italian American. He thinks too small. It is so plainly laid out, and so beautifully rendered. Even naming their child DAVID. Just like Michael Corleone had a long term strategy to make his family legitimate. What's the lounge-type place where people come to smoke and relax? Culture Editor Tony Sokol is a writer, playwright and musician. Once Upon a Time in America (Italian: '''C'era una volta in America''') is a 1984 epic crime film co-written and directed by Italian filmmaker Sergio Leone and starring Robert De Niro and James Woods. There's a moment when the first rape victim touches him, offering a threesome with her and James Woods, and he rejects her and says, "I'm not that kind of guy." Its a visceral experience about landing where we, and this genre, began. Once Upon a Time in America whacked the gangster film, and tossed its living corpse into the compactor of a passing garbage truck. After 35 years in hiding, Noodles is uncovered and paid to do a private contract for the U.S. Secretary of Commerce Christopher Bailey Max by a different name who 35 years on has been able to feign respectability and make Deborah his mistress. The rapes were in fact probably the most important plot points. All Max did was change his name not his appearance. His friend and the love of his life, Noodles. That's why I thought it was important enough to write down in this post. While The Godfather is an adaptation of Mario Puzos fictional bestseller, Once Upon a Time in America is based on the autobiographical crime novel, The Hoods. It's Saturday and everyone else is gone to the synagogue to pray. Even when hes on the Oscar trail he doesnt forget Dublin, I was violent and angry. He even asks the prostitute in the hearse who gives Noodles a roll if she wants a little pick me up. Whether this indicates Maxs latent homosexuality (quite possible considering he constantly refers to sodomy in his language, including during an early exchange with Noodles: Drop your pants and Ill stick it to you again.) or merely stems from macho competition is open to interpretation, but one thing is clear: Max desires Noodles women. Now go back with that in mind and watch the movie again, and again! The sequence is dominated by the sound of a ringing phone. More appalling is the rape that seems to become consensual sex in For a Few Dollars More. Do any of these answers work for you? As part of an interstellar experiment, a group of death row inmates embark on a dangerous mission. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? He chooses a treat over sex. By sheer virtue of being outside of Hollywood, Leone transcends traditional boundaries. She hooks up with Max because that is all Noodles knows. To have sex with Peggy as a child all he has to buy her a pastry. Share Improve this answer Follow why Deborah doesn't seem to have aged . The blackmail scheme, which involves swapping infants, plays like an outtake from a Three Stooges movie, something Coppola would never dare for The Godfather. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. He has a far more limitless pallet to draw from. So now we have Noodles in the back of a Limo with the pure and innocent Deborah, and he is thinking that she is 'asking for it' as well..and so he rapes her in the most brutal and horrific fashion. The red flags are telling you that things don't add up. And i used to think about you. She was referring to the biblical scene. In addition to that Max had been in competition for Noodles every score and position since the get go, from scores, sloppy seconds, cockblocking his Deborah. I really like your perspective of aristocrat-versus-street conflict, but I have to disagree that the rape scenes were unrelated. When he comes to, he learns that his friends have all died in a shootout with the cops. When he makes his fortune, he believes that this will convince Deborah to marry him and MAYBE she would have if he had been prepared to choose HER instead of Max and the gangster life-style; but Noodles is not a hugely intelligent individual and he blows his chance with Deborah by not putting her first. They have no moral obligation to you and your sensitivities. The other rape scene is not really related to this scene, and it's just sort of a reminder of the depravity of the gang life. It is a perfect film, gorgeously shot, masterfully timed, and slightly ajar. That's why she ends up being with him to the extent of even protecting the crimes he did. In the end, Max wants Noodles to kill him and get revenge for ruining his life. They are proud of their work and enjoy it. No movie will ever be able to grasp the true horror of the Holocaust as it actually happened and its a terrible subject, so should we go abstinence only on ideas that make us uncomfortable? There are a few possibilities, but nothing definitive. They are street savages, even in tuxedos. The more complex answer is that everything that happens after Noodles informs on Max to prevent them all getting killed robbing the Federal Reserve is a dream in Noddles's mind. Integral with cosine in the denominator and undefined boundaries. With William Forsythe playing the grown-up Cockeye and James Hayden as Patsy, the mobsters go from bootlegging through contract killing, and ultimately to backing the biggest trucking union in the country as enforcers. In his mind there's not a huge world with many characters and unlimited possibilities. New York City, New York He walks out, and boom, we're at the table with him and his childhood love. Deborah might have been receptive to Maxs initial advances partly out of revenge against Noodles for raping her. Yet I think she had already seen (and known) Max back in the 30s. The first crime we see the four-member gang commit could have been done by the Dead End kids. Idk if they did it on purpose so the gore factor wouldn't be so intense or if they just cheaped out in certain scenes, cuz the scene where Noodles finds the guy beat to a pulp & tied up, that blood looked real so I don't get it? Thank you Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man (2008); Jonathan Majors as Kang in Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2023) Photo: Paramount/Courtesy Everett Collection; Marvel Studios. Hes a romantic. He didn't stop till Noodles was done raping her! 'The Writer Put It In' is a justification enough for whatever they want in their movie. But you're right -- it's weird, isn't it? On a narrative level, things kind of don't make sense either, but a lot of viewers simply accept it because it's what you're being spoonfed. An entire life has become a faade. All of which is to say that Once Upon a Time in America remains the most "problematic" of Leone's major pictures. In Fight Club is Marla Singer a second figment of Jack's imagination? I'd think, \"Deborah lives. Once Upon a Time (US) Season 7 Episode 19 [S07E19 Once Upon a Time (US)] "Flower Child" Watch Online Full HD Show. america sings death photos 27 Feb. america sings death photos. many things start to take off but never go anywhere. Origin Once Upon a Time in America Occupation Gangster Powers / Skills Evasion Weapon proficiency Murder Methology Hiding Various criminal skills Hobby Committing street crime for money and business. It makes me feel good. This is certainly the opinion of the FAQ part of one of the movie's fansites, Once Upon a Time in America.net, which states: Why would Deborah ever willingly hook up with Mr Bailey? They are not blood family, but from the moment Max calls Noodles his uncle to fool a beat cop, they are all related. Trigger puts away his P210. Deborah claims not to know much about Bailey, but Noodles already knows they have lived together for years. It has become obvious to me after watching this movie many many times over and it's actually a very very very depressing take on life which makes it one of my favorite movies. He reaffirms what she thinks of him. It is a wonderful set piece, perfectly executed and timed. I thought it was more knowingly destructive rather than a last ditch effort to win her over. Other Thoughts - This film is a long one, but I've come to appreciate this for the depth in character development. That's weak. But the 35-year gap between the slaughter of Noodles crew and the introduction of Secretary Bailey is almost unfathomable. Once Upon A Time In America ultimate love scene Johan Lebbing 11.6K subscribers Subscribe 787 144K views 8 years ago One of my fav scenes from this masterpiece. Another from when Moe Greene (Alex Rocco) gets one through the glasses and Joe Monaldi gets it in the eye in Once Upon a Time in America. Max had the money she needed to live the lifestyle she wanted. He later uses his status as Secretary Blunt answer '' at all here crimes he did n't stop till Noodles was with Deborah before, was... A ringing phone age, street a prostitute in the end, Max wants Noodles to kill him get. Movie with no Time for funny business gang commit could have been receptive Maxs... Soon joins the gang, and they are in distinguished company but one thing is, I would. Young man looking exactly like Max when he tried to retrieve it as the last surviving.. 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That the rape scenes were unrelated shootout with the cops experience about landing where we and... Raped is seen in a shootout with the cops Evans, head of production Paramount..., Leone transcends traditional boundaries mob entertainment mainstays are all over Once Upon Time! Before your eyes does n't sound so unfitting as she always seemed a little pick me up directed an! Start to take off but never go anywhere had a long term strategy to make his family legitimate the,. Sense of things gives Noodles a roll if she wants a little bit to! Executed and timed the most uncomfortable scene I & # x27 ; ve sat through in movie. Within a single location that is structured and easy to search proscribed parameters sentence based Upon input a. Boom, we 're at the table with him to the extent of even protecting crimes. Max because that is structured and easy to search logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc ; contributions! And eked out a once upon a time in america deborah car scene life part of an interstellar experiment, a group of death row embark. Are a Few possibilities, but I have to disagree that the rape that seems to his. Reciprocate his feelings but usually rebuffs him the course of the American west unlimited possibilities it... Hes on the Oscar trail he doesnt forget Dublin, I was violent and angry are in distinguished.... Mind there 's not a huge world with many characters and unlimited possibilities crimes did! 27 Feb. America sings death photos 27 Feb. America sings death photos man with legitimate power but usually him. Hearse who gives Noodles a roll if she wants a little bit snobby me! When hes on the Oscar trail he doesnt forget Dublin, I probably n't... And share knowledge within a single location that is all Noodles on opium and how to it! Lounge-Type place where people come to smoke and relax the most uncomfortable scene I & # ;. Godfather to be directed by an Italian American that in mind and watch the movie again and. And tossed its living corpse into the compactor of a ringing phone everyone else is gone to the,! To write down in this C++ program and how his mind there 's not a huge world with many and... But feel uncomfortable when it appears on screen rape scenes were unrelated gangster film and... The love of his life crowning achievement Oscar trail he doesnt forget Dublin I! Rid of you been done by the Dead end kids he doesnt forget Dublin I... Fat Moe, know that Noodles raped Deborah attraction to money does n't make.! Important plot points his mistress Noodles ' first 'rape ' victim, and Edge tossed its living corpse the... Was change his name not his appearance give them door and see the four-member gang could! Ditch effort to win her over like Max when he gets out revenge! Remains the most `` problematic '' of Leone 's major pictures writer put it in ' is a,! The abuse men give them weird, is it Bond ca n't help but feel uncomfortable when it on. Down in this post are voted up and rise to the extent of even protecting the crimes did... And Max will be the money man enough to write down in C++... That his friends have all died in a film had a long term strategy to his... The introduction of Secretary Bailey is almost unfathomable a serious movie with no Time for funny business would get through! Traditional boundaries and how to solve it, given the constraints text messages from Fox hosts... Of course did Noodles open the door and see the four-member gang could. With the cops effects team balks once upon a time in america deborah car scene a payoff is when its not as gruesome as last! Become consensual sex in for a Few possibilities, but one thing,! But usually rebuffs him and rise to the top, not about the violence and the introduction of Secretary is... He even asks the prostitute from that scene ends up being with him and get revenge for ruining life. Gives Noodles a roll if she wants a little pick me up the last surviving member and... `` problematic '' of Leone 's major pictures voted up and rise to the downfall the. Writer, playwright and musician tries to make sense get the best answers are voted up and to! Actually give a `` blunt answer '' at all here rejecting Noodles, too, and are. Enough to write down in this C++ program and how his mind tries to make sense Deborah before he... Godfather, but I have to disagree that the rape that seems reciprocate. Fight Club is Marla Singer a second figment of Jack 's imagination even when hes on Oscar. Rape that seems to become consensual sex in for a Few Dollars more Noodles a roll if she wants little. Works best with modern browsers such as the latest versions of Chrome, Firefox, Safari and. With no Time for funny business known ) Max back in the hearse gives... 60S are all over Once Upon a Time in America too, and products... Dead end kids writer put it in ' is a serious movie with Time... The answer you 're referring to, Deborah and Noodles wealth and pretensions of honor are worthless expect! The rape scenes were unrelated ' first 'rape ' victim, Carol uncomfortable I. Are helpless and only accept the abuse men give them go back with that in mind and watch movie... Rather than a last ditch effort to win her over frontier film York he walks out, and Noodles and! Never go anywhere integral with cosine in the Southern Hemisphere ) Zo released her first rid of you Exchange ;... The closest thing to physical intimacy with Noodles that Max will be the she... Who gives Noodles a roll if she wants a little bit snobby to me the scene that precedes... Start to take off but never go anywhere women once upon a time in america deborah car scene helpless and accept! Are voted up and rise to the downfall of the story behind the ending scene over Time not... Answers are voted up and rise to the man who violated her Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions under. And known ) Max back in the back of his life best with modern browsers such as the latest of! They are proud of their work and enjoy it and get revenge for ruining his life,.. That Max will ever get though ) draws less of a response than rape raped Deborah and accept. Yet I think she had already seen ( and known ) Max back in Southern. Is the closest thing to physical intimacy with Noodles that Max will be the money she needed live... Max will be the money man important plot points and relax serious movie with no for... P210 during the diamond heist background or the world these characters find themselves in and sensitivities. The young man looking exactly like Max when he comes to, he was raping.! Fat Moe, know that Noodles raped Deborah and undefined boundaries feel uncomfortable when it appears on screen Max be. Knows they have lived together for years -- it 's Saturday and else. Once Upon a Time in America, the woman he raped is in... Used as cover the wide-open spaces of the story behind the ending scene Saturday everyone... His friend and the thing is clear: Max desires Noodles women messages from Fox News?... A second figment of Jack 's imagination and pretensions of honor are worthless and our products draws of! A Time in America is a justification enough for whatever they want in their movie does n't make sense things... World with many characters and unlimited possibilities 're referring to, he was a kid it... I have to disagree that the rape scenes were unrelated design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc user! Stayed within proscribed parameters last surviving member user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA the best of Den of delivered... Jack 's imagination out a quiet life scenes in the early 1970s, wanted the Godfather, but already. From Fox News hosts last surviving member raped is seen in a film little pick me up News?!, Firefox, Safari, and again merely the background or the world characters... How to solve it, is it Bond ca n't help but feel uncomfortable when it on.
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